On pages 177-180 Deanna and Eddie talk about their own connections to animals, specifically predators. What does it mean for Deanna to be an animal lover? And for Eddie? Which position do you find yourself supporting or agreeing with? For either person, what is the relationship of humans and animals?
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In this chapter, Eddie, hearing Deanna talk about not hurting/killing animals, at first thinks that being an animal lover involves loving and worshipping animals. He hears her argument about the coyotes, thinks she would never do anything to purposely hurt or kill another living creature, and then catches her watching the moth that she had told him not to mess with, and thinks that being an animal lover means loving animals as much or even more than people. However, this is not the case. For Deanna, being an animal lover is not about loving animals individually, but loving them as species. “I don’t love animals as individuals, I guess that’s the way to put it,” she said. “I love them as whole species. I feel like they should have the right to persist in their own ways” (177). She sees the situation in a more general way, because she is more concerned with the circle of life, and not interfering with species’ will to survive. I agree with Deanna more, and would not call it necessarily loving animals, but loving and respecting the natural destiny and circle of all loving things. For Deanna, the relationship between humans and animals involves admiring from a distance. She knows that humans are powerful creatures, and that they have the ability to wipe out an entire specie. She believes that if a person must eat, then they should consider eating an herbivore that reproduces more frequently. In other words, a human must be educated before interfering/interacting with nature.
I completely agree with with the response to this question. After reading the section, it is definately clear that Deanne holds a strong respect for the animal species as a whole rather than seperately. Being a human she holds the power to interact and observe the animals and from an educated point of view she is able to play a role in there survival or extinction. I liked how this person mentioned being educated because if we look back at the history of humans we were constantly hunting animals not just for fun but for our survival, and it is now that we are educated we find ways around hunting to feed ourselves. Being an animal lover in Deanna's eyes comes with respect and observation from distance, and her knowlege of perserving there kind.
Deanna and Eddie have completely different views when it comes to being an animal lover. It was a conversation she was anxious to have with Eddie but also nervous about its outcome. I find myself agreeing more with Deanna’s view of loving animals based on loving them “as a whole species. I feel like they should have the right to persist in their own ways” (Kingsolver 177). She goes on to describe her feelings about animals that “don’t belong” and how she would easily be okay with drowning a feral cat in the river. Although I personally don’t think I could drown a cat in a river, I agree with her point of view. Feral cats are not natural predators and they’re put in places they don’t belong because people are irresponsible; ultimately destroying natural environments and processes. This is why I can easily say I agree with Deanna. I don’t believe being an animal lover is necessarily loving all animals and being peaceful towards them. On the other hand, I also do not believe that killing an animal whose species does not reproduce often or is a species that is “nobody’s pet” (Kingsolver 176) is necessary. Eddie believes the relationship of humans and animals is a conflicting one where Deanna believes in more of a unity of the two. Although I feel that Eddie understands where Deanna is coming from, he believes that if an animal poses a threat or is assumed of posing a threat to a farm, it is his responsibility to kill it and take care of the problem. This was a conversation I was excited to read about because Deanna and Eddie have such strong feelings together but this was something that could have acted as a "make or break" situation in their relationship.
In the book, Prodigal Summer, by Barbara Kingsover, Deanna and Eddie talk about their own connections to animals. Deanna describes herself as an animal lover that likes animals not as individuals, but as whole species. If there is an animal that is domesticated by humans, and then let out to roam free in the wild, disrupting other animals, Deanna feels that she can either "...remedy that by taking one's life, or ignore it and let the mistake go on and on"(177). The difference between Eddie and Deanna's veiw on what an animal lover is, Eddie called her that because she was very concerned about the moth and assumed that she thinks all animals are wonderful and should live no matter what. I agree with Deanna because I think that sometimes people get selfish and feel like that what they do is for the best. My reponse to Eddie when he was saying that it is not the house cat's fault for killing different species, I would bring up the point that then it is not the coyote's fault that you have a ranch, with livestock, that is either invading their home or where that hunt for food. It is too bad that our only defense against wild animals tends to be shooting them. Deanna believes in only killing for survival, while Eddie belives in hunting to make his life easier, maintaining his ranch. People need to learn more about nature and the animals that live within it before making a judgement of what should or should not live.
In the chapter titled, "Predators," Deanna and Eddie have very conflicting views when it comes to man's role in nature. Eddie is an avid hunter brought to the forest for a bounty hunt. He blames the coyote for the problems on the family ranch. Due to this, he believes hunting them will control these issues. Deanna state, "A coyote is just something you can blame. He's nobody's pet, he doesn't belong to anybody but himself. So, great, put a bullet in him" (176). This statement describes how eddie, as well as many other townspeople feel about nature. They look at how nature is effecting them and if it's causing them grief, they fix it. They don't seem to realize that these animals are trying to survive just like them. Unlike Eddie, Deanna is considered an animal lover. She loves them as a whole species, not just as individuals. I also believe that all animals have the right to life. Every animal is an important part in balancing the natural cycle of life.
Deanna is the type of animal lover that believes animals should live and die naturally. She does not believe that we should interfere with that cycle, thus we should not kill animals for pure fun, and we also should not keep animals alive if the animals are destined to go extinct. She feels as though she is type of person that could kill one animal if she had to if it is disturbing the ‘circle of life,’ because as she says on p. 177 “I don’t love animals as individuals… I love them as a whole species.” She is okay with the idea that animals kill one another if it is in the wild and not something that humans had tampered with. On the other hand Eddie is a rancher and he believes it is okay to tamper with the natural cycle, if a coyote is going to kill his sheep then he is going to shoot it before it attacks. Deanna believes this is wrong because it is ‘natural’ for a coyote to kill or attack the sheep, in the wild. I find myself agreeing more with Deanna’s side. I feel that everything is naturally occurring and things are the way they are. Of course I would never be the one to kill an animal because it isn’t supposed to be around, but I believe that animals eat each other and that’s the way it is, I don’t however believe that humans should eat animals. When I became vegetarian someone told me, well if we don’t eat the chickens and cows then they are just going to be roaming around everywhere and overpopulating. I found this completely untrue; there are so many cows and chickens because humans have selfishly domesticated them to be the way they are. Whether I am right or wrong humans have changed the natural cycle of animals used for consumption, and like Deanna I don’t believe this is fair.
In this "Predator Chapter", Deanna defines herself as an animal lover in terms of protecting native species equally. She talks about protecting the native birds and nests against the feral cats that, "started wrecking nests and killing birds and having babies in the woods.." [177] She doesn't believe that these feral cats are "native predators" to this area; therefore they should not be present because they are negatively influencing the flourishing existing natural environment. She also states, "And I support their [animals] right to go on murdering their babies in the wild if that's how they do it, unpestered by humans. That's the kind of animal lover I am." [178]
Eddie argues with her, including examples from his ranch to support his view. He talks about how bats eat the fruit and inhabit the barns, and that he as a rancher has the right to kill them to benefit his farm. This negatively influences the environment by allowing the mosquitoes the bats prey on to thrive. This, in turn creates many more problems. Deanna counters with the idea that, “One mosquito can make a bat happy for, what, fifteen seconds, before it starts looking for another one? But one bat might eat two hundred mosquitoes in a night.” [179] Another example he talks about is the coyotes. Eddie ranches sheep, and the coyotes prey on the sheep so to help his farm, coyotes must be killed, which is unnatural.
Overall, Eddie and Deanna have somewhat the same view about being an animal lover. They both protect species, which they care about or are natural to the environment. Deanna helps the birds by ridding the woods of feral cats just as Eddie gets rid of coyotes to help his sheep. I can see both sides of this situation, and agree with both of them. Eddie needs help to keep his farm, lifestyle, and income up and running just as Deanna needs to help the birds in order to keep the environment from being disrupted by invasive species.
Deanna’s view of loving animals is based on species as a whole. She doesn’t love one more than another but she takes the animals as they are. She said that she would want to kill a tabby cat that “wandered… from some farm and started wrecking nests and killing birds.” Not because she isn’t a cat person, but because it isn’t in their nature to be living in the forest. I agree with Deanna when she says, “they should have a right to persist in their own ways” (177). This includes the idea of infanticide. Last year in my human evolution class the idea of infanticide was discussed quite a bit. The killing of infants is done frequently in primates. Often by males so the females will become estrus more quickly. I like that an idea that would be criminal in human society is accepted as normal within these primates and other animals. I like even more that Deanna sees this action as part of nature. This she loves the gruesomeness of predators not the fakeness.
I agree with hallie comment on the issue.
I found interesting how despite the fact Deanna and Eddie's views on animals and animal preservation seem so different from each other that Deanna can see where Eddie opinion is coming from while being able to disagree with it.
I agree with Deanna's view more on how “I love them as whole species. I feel like they should have the right to persist in their own ways” (177).
that should be taken into consideration when looking at animals in general. specially on a ranch.
An example similar to the coyote one is wolves in Europe. The population of Wolves is decreasing to the point of being considered endanger species. why? because farmers and other people who have livestock fearing for it go out of the way to kill wolves in proximity because they are a threat.
but that's not wolves fault. the wolf was not natural to Europe. it had to adapt to the environment of it, and because humans hunted the other animals out in the wild the wolf sometimes had no choice but to kill the livestock it found.
so just because the wolf is nobody's pet doesn't meant it has to be taken rid of.
another point is on how these wild animals that people like Eddie seem so ready to label as threats contribute to the balance of the environment around them.
The coyote for example could possible be the highest predator in the area. without it around the smaller animals that could turn into a plague could multiply beyond control. So the coyote is needed to keep a balance.
On these pages, Deanna and Eddie talk in depth about predators - particularly whether it is right to kill off predators. Deanna states quite clearly what she believes "To kill a natural predator is a sin" (Kingsolver 179). This is because natural predators (those found within nature and not introduced by humans) help maintain the food chain.
Eddie Bondo, on the other hand, believes that we must kill the natural predator in order to protect our human interests. Eddie believes more that we should use animals for our own needs and worry less about how killing them effects the natural environment as a whole.
As Deanna comments "Herbivores tend to have shorter lives, and they reproduce faster; they're just geared toward expendability. They can overpopulate at the drop of a hat if nobody's eating them" (Kingsolver 178). Because of this natural predators are necessary in order to keep a healthy and manageable number of herbivores in nature. I agree with this completely. At home in Maryland, we have an over population of deer. This is because due the fear of the natural predators (foxes and wolves especially) attacking humans, almost all of the natural predators have been hunted down. The over population has not only caused a sort of kink in the food chain, but has caused problems for people as well. Car accidents involving deer are ridiculously frequent (A deer actually ran into my car only a few weeks before arriving at school). These accidents are not only an awful and unnatural way for an animal to die but they are extremely dangerous and costly to the drivers. This is all because we have taken the natural predator out of it's habitat.
The term animal lover is thrown around a lot and it bothers me when people assume they know who I am just because I like animals. I relate to how Deanna reacted to Eddie as she said being an animal lover really is just a stereo type there are so many deferent views one could have. Both Eddie and she are lovers of animals. Eddie loves nature but also loves the tame. What I thought was interesting about the conversation was that Deanna kept accusing Eddie of using Coyotes as an escape for his frustration other the loss of sheep and yet she hypocritically states that if a cat came up into the woods she would kill it. Eddie pointed out that it was not the cats fault and she responded by saying that that was a humanly imposed believe and that cats live by a deferent set of rules, but how does she know that? Deanna has a hatred of people and the destruction they have caused the environment, it seems that she is using the cat in the same way that Eddie is using the coyote. Yes cats can wipe out large populations of animals but it is really the people who are causing the problem not the cats who are just trying to live. I do feel that Eddie is in the wrong, because coyotes rarely kill things larger then prairie dogs and they do help keep mice populations down, the same as cats.
For Deanna, being an animal lover means letting native animals "persist in their own way" (Kingsolver, 177). She believes in interfering though when it means domesticated animals are involved. Deanna specifically talks about feral cats on page 177 and how they can alter ecosystems simply because they do not belong there. She even talks about drowning a cat if she saw one. For Eddie, animal lover means killing them for recreation and doing what you have to if they are in your way, considering he is a sheep farmer. He sympathizes with farmers while Deanna sympathizes with the animals and function of ecosystems.
It is hard to agree with either person. I know how sheep farmers will want to protect their land and sheep, but sometimes when you let an ecosystem continue its natural way, it doesn't always work out in favor of some species. For example, if we let the Palm Hammock on campus go unmonitored, the invasive species Brazilian Pepper would take over completely. And invasive species are everywhere, some are more aggressive than others. Some intervening may be necessary, but it's not always a good idea.
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